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Oral history recording with Francesco Laforges. Recorded as part of the Italian Memories in Wales project (2008-10), delivered by ACLI-ENAIP and funded by the National Lottery Heritage Fund.

00:00:24 Francesco was born in Bari in 1932. His paternal grandfather was Giuseppe Laforges, his surname has French roots. His grandfather was born in 1899, in Bitritto near Bari; he describes the area. The industry of Bitritto was agriculture, his maternal grandfather rented land which he passed on to Francesco’s father, and it has now been passed on to his brother and sister. He explains that if you had a piece of land you could survive. Francesco went to school until he was eleven then worked on the farm; his father was illiterate though made sure his children had an education.

00:09:39 In Bitritto they speak a dialect, of which he gives an example. People in the village all had nicknames; the Laforges family nickname was Ciacciola. His mother’s name was Sibbiona and Francesco used her name. Francesco describes his paternal grandfather. His parents were Pasquale and Maddalena. His father worked on the fields, not on a farm but on land around the town. There was no industry and all work was done by hand. There were two landowners in his village who employed regular workers. Every field had high stone walls and most had grapevines. The community would be working two or three at a time on small holdings and every now and then the landowners would hire a lot of people for two weeks at a time if they were lucky. In winter they worked from sunrise till sunset whereas in summer they would work seven or eight hours. They had to walk miles to the field, with a box of bread; they would arrive around seven and leave around twelve when it was too hot to work. Some would go back at around four in the afternoon. Children would be hired to weed between beans and chick peas for money. During the war the government would take a lot of their food. He explains that flour was available to make gnocchi and bread.

00:25:15 Francesco was one of seven children. His mother looked after the house- preparing meals with old fashioned fireplace. He would travel far to fetch water and sticks for the fire. Francesco would spend time in the ACLI club. They ate a lot of beans and chick peas, chicory, cabbage, cauliflower. Everything was scarce- he describes it as healthy. They wouldn’t eat meat apart from at Easter or for festivals. The only meat they would eat would be rabbits.

Summary Part 2 00:00:13 Francesco continues to talk about food; they would eat stuffed rabbits for a special festival and Francesco would go out to find dandelion leaves for the rabbits, which they would also eat. He talks of festivals- The San Rocco festival, Christmas, Constantinople and explains that every town had a protecting saint; his village saint was Constantinople. The day before the festival there is a big market selling sheep, lambs etc. He describes what the centre of the village was like. For four following days there would be lights all over the village, a stage and a band. There would be a procession, fireworks, food. Ice Cream, nuts, roasted meat would be sold. The community was friendly, young people respected their elders and he continues to talk and people and characters in the village.

Summary Part 3 00:00:20 When the British left Bari to go north they pushed the Germans North, he would see planes heading for Montecassino. An oil ship was also blown up by the Germans. He describes what the shelters were like and remembers his fear as a child. He continues to talk about the bombings, no lights were allowed.

00:06:37 Francesco was thirteen when the war ended and his town didn’t change a lot before he left at nineteen. He recalls going back in Morris Minor in 1959 and there only being a couple of cars in the village. There was still a lot of poverty; yet going back he could afford a lot of things due to the strength of the pound. Leaving his country was necessary due to unemployment yet when people ask if he wants to move back he replies that now his family are here. Francesco never had a job in Italy, apart from odd jobs and daily work carried out in the fields.

00:11:35 When he first thought of leaving Italy Francesco didn’t know that Wales existed. The Welsh Coal Board was looking for men between 18 and 30 to work in the coal mine. At the same time he put his name down for that, he had a medical for the army. He failed that medical but was accepted by the Coal Board; he recalls the testing, preparation and interview stages in Milan.

00:16:48 They were sent to Yorkshire to work in mines but hostilities there meant that Italian workers could no longer work in the mine. They were offered work in mines in Belgium or £25 to leave the job. Francesco eventually found building work for an Italian family in Wales, with the Sidoli ice cream business and then at Iron Ore mine in Llanharry.

Summary Part 4 00:00:10 The immigrants travelled by boat and train and were given sausage and mash on their arrival finding the difference in food difficult to cope with. They stayed in a hostel with workers from many other nationalities. He talks of some difficulties he faced, as did his wife who was Welsh, with regards to his nationality.

00:05:15 Francesco worked five days a week, getting time and a half for half day Saturdays. He talks about mining and the atmosphere in the mines; pitch black with rats. Horse would be kept down there for work and would often go blind when they came out. Francesco worked for twelve months on the top- loading coal on the wagon for the boiler. There was more money working underground so he shifted machinery there for some time. He worked with another Italian from the North, for whom he had to translate, who was a specialised stonemason. There were a lot of Italians in the Llanharry mine.

00:14:42 One of Francesco’s brothers was working in Venezuela but wasn’t enjoying it. There was such a big demand for mine workers that Francesco was able to send for him. He became ill soon after he arrived and then died. Francesco moved to Ebbw Vale.

00:20:34 Francesco recalls his first holiday back in Italy after 18 months; the nostalgia and emotion he felt. For the first four years he remembers being called an ‘alien’ when he first moved over- having to report every time he moved house. He was made to feel like an outsider for that reason and experienced other difficulties. He remembers the first Welsh people he met- one called Charlie who told Francesco to pretend he was Spanish because of the war. Then Britain started having problems with the Spanish and he said ‘what do you want me to be now’. Emigration was seen as a good thing in Italy when he came over. He talks of the situation now and about Berlusconi and the failures of the government regarding industries.

00:29:22 Francesco would never go back to live in Italy, yet he would spend a few months a year there if he had a place there. There are a lot of people that moved away from Italy so people are used to it when he goes back, though they are surprised that his dialect is very old fashioned and broad as the language has changed. He has now lived longer in Britain so feels more at home here; also because of his wife and family. Francesco explains how he met his wife and asked her to the pictures, though he didn’t have a lot of time to court her as he would always be working; whenever it was a sunny day he would have to go and sell ice cream. He holds a lot of respect for Mr. Sidoli.

00:36:17 He recalls getting together with the Italian community every now and then, however many have now moved back or died. He continues to talk about going back and how he keeps the culture alive in his children and grandchildren here in Wales; through language and food. He always planned to stay in Wales and only now misses the weather in Italy. He took his children to Italian classes but they didn’t stick with it. He used to speak dialect to his children but found it difficult to keep it up as his wife spoke English. Though he values the link with Italy he considers English as a more important language.

42.00 He still feels very Italian, but has a very strong Welsh accent which people notice. He learnt English straight away, and doesn’t see Welsh as an important language and thinks that too much money is spent on that. His grandchildren have visited Italy when they all went to Italy together. His son likes Bari; the avenues with flowers and the sea. He talks about spending more time in Italy as good for him. Finally, he doesn’t wish to be disrespectful but he wished that he had moved to a better country weather wise!